Classic ocean liners, crossing the oceans, had been for long time the only way to cross the seas. A comeback of ocean liners for real? When in 2010 the Islandic volcano Eyjafjallajökull did errupt, and all flights that would come near his ash-clouds had to be cancelled, people had been trapped on each side of the pond ... And immidiately all available cabins on containerships had been booked, cruise vessels sailing either to the Americas or Europe had been flodded by desperate travellers to get to their destination ... Going by ship was in those days the only way to cross. It did show a certain, but temporary neccessity of liner traffic.
But unfortunately we did not have any longer a frequent crossing possibility by ship - Transatlantic liners, liners per se had gone, gone with the wind of history and technical progress in air flight.
Is an ocean liner comeback possible?
Is an ocean liner comeback possible?
by Earl of Cruise
rms QUEEN ELIZABETH 2 © Beken - own collection, copy from a postcard
CUNARD held the banner of Transatlantic crossing still up with QUEEN ELIZABETH 2´s more or less regular crossings. CUNARD developed these journeys into a new form of "special cruise", where the journey was the target not the destination. It was a wonderful alternative to the more and more fun drunken cruise happenings on the mass market companies floating resorts.
When QE2 had to be retiered, CUNARD, fuelled by its new US owner CARNIVAL CORP., started constructing QUEEN MARY 2. As the marketing department repeats to death, "The last true ocean liner", which QM2 is not in my opinion. QM2 is a huge cruise vessel in liner disguise. Sorry!
A cruise vessel is a cruise vessel is a cruise vessel ... A liner is a liner is a liner.
Journalists and marketing people unaware about the significant differences between these two kind of ships repeat like prayer mille the wrong: this or that vessel is a cruise liner. And folks started believing it ... A liner, in special a passenger liner is sailing between two or more ports on time schedule back and forth, back and forth. On the way that liner carries mail, freight and passengers. You can it compare with a ferry service across the Irish Sea, the Chanel, or between the isles of Indonesia, Japan and other regions.
This cruise ferry labeld COLOR MAGIC a kind of modern ocean liner, with different classes from luxury to budget, similar to those liners we all miss - courtsey COLOR LINE
COLOR MAGIC´s grand main dining room - courtsey COLOR LINE
A cruise vessel is crisscrossing the ocean from one delightfull and touristic interesting port of destination to another one under the sun, or if it will be for the Northern climes, under the clouds and sometimes sun in the Arctic Ocean, or down under in that of Antarctica, or the various fjords ... Even if that vessel is sailing on a regular basis in the Caribbean Sea with a time schedule and regular ports of call, it is NOT a liner. The cruise vessels passengers embark in the same port as they are disembrking. For non US flagged companies the only way to pass the most protective and antique Jones Act.
CARNIVAL "fun till you drop" amusement park - courtsey CARNIVAL CRUISE LINES
Just over a century, 2013, after the Titanic sank to the bottom of the
North Atlantic, "after chasing an iceberg for new ice for the drinks", an Australian billionaire has officially floated plans
to build a successor. Clive Palmer, chairman of
Brisbane-based Blue Star Line, billionaire with massive tax fraud problems, revealed blueprints for a TITANIC II, a
“full-scale re-creation” of the ill-fated, ship at a
press conference on the Intrepid Air, Sea & Space Museum in New
York.
He announced his new TITANIC would set to sail in 2016, the ship is one of
several - the QM2, once the QE2, and SS United States are among the others - that seek,
in one or way or another, to recapture the glory days of the great
ocean liners and ensure that their legends live on.
QUEEN MARY 2 in the middle of QUEEN VICTORIA and QUEEN ELIZABETH during the 175 year festivities of CUNARD in Southampton - © Solent News
CUNARD marketing claims these cruise ships as liners
CUNARD marketing claims these cruise ships as liners
First up: TITANIC, or more precisely, TITANIC
II, a modern-day version of the ship that sank on its maiden voyage in
April 1912. Will never see water under his keel, as the idea crashed. But since 2013 it is popping up in the news, print and online, everytime, when there is a news drought. This year nearly none of these effect hashchings ... there is too much going on in the Jungle Camp of Washington.
During that inglorious press conference, Palmer referred to the
original as a “ship of dreams” and its successor as a ship “where dreams
come true”.The billionaire was referring to the wrong statements about TITANIC being the most luxurious vessel ever ... Only true for her 3rd Class, the steerage! 1st and 2nd Class of TITANIC 1912 was beyond average. But the wrong is strong in the world. But via repeating for the 1000th time - it is not becoming a truth.
Palmer envisioned, that his dream entails building is
269,14 m / 883 ft long, 55,800-ton with space for 2,435 passengers. That’s
small by today’s standards - the QUEEN MARY 2 measures 151,000 GT;
the OASIS of the SEAS, 220,000 GT - but big enough to offer a casino,
gymnasium and other features reminiscent of the original. In other nods to the past, passengers will
wear period clothing from 1912 and be able to book passage in first,
second or third class.
"It will be 98% the same," Palmer told the BBC 2012. Presumably, the other 2% will apply to the welded (not
riveted) hull, the modern propulsion system and the addition of enough
lifeboats to preclude problems with things that go bump in the night at
sea ...
While Palmer declined to discuss the cost of
the ship, other ocean liner aficionados have expressed doubts about the
viability of the project ever since the idea was first floated 2012. “It’s like a Disneyland representation of the
TITANIC,” said maritime historian Peter Knego in an interview with Rob Lovitt. “You can’t build with
wood anymore, you can’t rivet, you can’t do all the things that made the TITANIC what she was.” The amount of wood used in a cabin, suite or public room can´t surpass a certain cubicmeter in relation to the rooms cubicmeter - SOLAS. Nor, said Peter Knego in 2013, can you ignore the fact that
the vast majority of today’s cruisers prefer ships with waterparks,
climbing walls and other resort-style amenities. The megalodon cruise vessels are today, as seen in 2013, gigantic floating amusement parks, DISNEY LAND at sea, or any other theme park you may imagine - EUROPARK in Germany, DISNEYLAND PARIS or those in the USA, TIVOLI in [kʰøb̥m̩ˈhɑʊ̯ˀn]. By comparison, interest
in transatlantic crossings, like the ones TITANIC II is expected to
begin making in 2016, went into sharp decline the moment PAN AM and BOAC
began flying jets across the pond in 1958.The trend was to be seen dramatically with QUEEN MARY 2, at first the speed was reduced from 30 to 23/25 kts during crossing, and then the booking numbers are in decline. Eventually as the potential repeaters see the program and and style not British enough, or too Americanized. A British friend of mine commented about QM2 and his crossing: "It is what an average, not propper educated, may have in mind, what Britain and being British should be, after watching Hollywood films for education." A rather harsh and blunt comment, but for that is my friend known in the cruise industry. What he said about his thoought, according to the victims of the catastrophy, I can´t and won´t repeat.
Clive Palners, inglorious idea, TITANIC II for his BLUE STAR LINE
“There’s probably a couple thousand people in
the world who’d be fascinated by a transatlantic crossing on a replica
of the TITANIC,” Peter Knego told NBC News. “It would also have to compete
against the Queen Mary 2 and there are times that the QM2 isn’t even
full.”
The TITANIC II, not even a true replica, would have needed a total new marketing concept and a new onboard program, ranging from crime story acting to various other ideas, to get the attention of more than the estimated TITANIC afficionados.
Original ships, alternative usesWhile
Titanic II seeks to turn back the clock to the glory days of the
early big ocean-liner era, proof that time doesn’t stand still sits, rusting and
peeling, at a dock in Philadelphia. Originally launched in 1952, UNITED STATES was as famous in its day as the TITANIC was 40 years
earlier but without the morbid associations.
“It’s the most famous ship that didn’t sink,”
said Susan Gibbs, executive director of the SS United States
Conservancy, which seeks to preserve the vessel. “It’s still with us and
is by many accounts one of the most storied U.S. liners ever built.”
Nov 22 2013 photo shows the rusting hull of UNITED STATES - © ASSOCIATED PRESS
That story, much condensed, goes like this:
Entering transatlantic service in 1952, the ship immediately became the
unofficial flagship of the U.S. merchant fleet, recognizable for its knife-like
bow and huge red, white and blue funnels. She broke the transatlantic speed
record on her maiden voyage and holds the westbound record for fastest
passenger service to this day.
UNITED STATES was massively financed by the state, as she was in times of Cold War built, and intended to be a suitable trooper, after loosing NORMANDIE 1942 in the following of carelessness, incompetence and arroganz. And the two British QUEEN´s prooved to be more than worthy for the war effort. NORMANDIE was never intended to become a trooper or warship, but QUEEN´s had been built "with war in mind", equally state financed, as their predessors, greyhounds LUSITANIA and MAURETANIA.
“When she was built, she represented the country,” said Peter Knego. “People were aware of her like they’re aware of the space shuttle now.”
UNITED STATES was massively financed by the state, as she was in times of Cold War built, and intended to be a suitable trooper, after loosing NORMANDIE 1942 in the following of carelessness, incompetence and arroganz. And the two British QUEEN´s prooved to be more than worthy for the war effort. NORMANDIE was never intended to become a trooper or warship, but QUEEN´s had been built "with war in mind", equally state financed, as their predessors, greyhounds LUSITANIA and MAURETANIA.
“When she was built, she represented the country,” said Peter Knego. “People were aware of her like they’re aware of the space shuttle now.”
William Francis Gibbs and his ship UNITED STATES - courtsey SS UNITED STATES CONSERVANCY
Alas, the subsequent rise of transatlantic jet
service essentially killed the market for transatlantic sailings and
the ship was taken out of service in 1969. Since then, it’s had several
owners, been stripped of its fittings and asbestos in Turkey and Russia! and avoided several dates with the
scrapyard.
Since 1996, the ship has sat at the dock in
Philadelphia, its hull streaked with rust and its red, white and blue
funnels faded to shades of pink and gray. The good news is that the ship
is structurally sound and asbestos-free; the bad news is that carrying
costs (maintenance, insurance, etc.) average $75,000 per month.
“That’s a heavy lift and one that can’t be
borne indefinitely,” said Susan Gibbs, who, it turns out, is the granddaughter
of the ship’s designer, William Francis Gibbs. Scrapping the ship
remains a threat, “but everyone involved will work their hearts out to
avoid that fate,” she told NBC News.
Those efforts include a grassroots campaign called SaveTheUnitedStates.org
and and plans to turn the ship into a waterfront attraction with
hotels, retail outlets and a museum dedicated to the ship, 20th century
design and the American ingenuity that underscored it.
According to Susan Gibbs, discussions have been
undertaken with several municipalities that might host the ship, with New
York being the most likely venue: “It was the ship’s homeport during
its service career; it attracts a lot of tourists, and it’s a bustling
city with high hotel occupancy rates.”
The effort would not come cheap but it’s also
not without precedent. The first Queen Mary has been a dockside
hotel/tourist attraction in Long Beach, Calif., since the early 1970s,
although, it, too, has faced a series of financial setbacks and therefore not the needed maintenance, and cuts into her structural integrity that made her quite vulnerable and detoriating.
The CONSERVACY knows about the catastrophic mistakes the numerous owners or lease partners of Long Beach made, and have a sample for an economic successful former odean liner as hotel, office, museum and meeting in Rotterdam - the former HOLLAND AMERIKA LINIJ liner ROTTERDAM.
The CONSERVACY knows about the catastrophic mistakes the numerous owners or lease partners of Long Beach made, and have a sample for an economic successful former odean liner as hotel, office, museum and meeting in Rotterdam - the former HOLLAND AMERIKA LINIJ liner ROTTERDAM.
More recently, the QUEEN ELIZABETH 2, which is sitting idle in Dubai since 2008, was told to be sold to Oceanic
Group, a Singaporean company, that did not take place ... QE2 is still idling in Dubai.QE2 was sold for an unreasonable high price to NAKHEEL prior to the big hit of the financial crisis, that did hit even Dubai and the Sheikh owned company - which did only survive through an US$ 800 million lending from Abu Dhabi ... Selling the precious, overpaid QE2 now will be considered as loosing the face in the Arabian world and especially in the Gulf region.
The restauration of the former liner and then cruise vessel ROTTERDAM into the attration she is now, did cost more as building a new liner of similar appearance ... And the amount broke the neck of involved companies on the way.
I will not write about the hoped "white knight" CRYSTAL CRUISES and the supervision of a potential career as nodern day cruise vessel, which never was intended to fly the Chinese flag, what ultra white supremacist cried out.
The once so modern aluminium superstructure is no longer a stable one, it is after 66 years more of a jello. The minimum what such a concept for UNITED STATES need is to become THE meeting point of New York, a major tourist attraction with museums, - as intended and incorporated hotels, dining venues, bars, theatres and cinemas, libraries, office facilities, perhaps even with flats for rent.
And because it is paned for New York, the stationary UNITED STATES has to be reinvented from time to time - New York is fast and dynamic!
But a ship is financially comparable with a barrel with no bottom - an open hole. A friend of mine joke once: "The densest on a ship, is the toilet ..." He is true for that blunt statement, but it is the more for ship that never sails on the seas. Such a vessel has to attract people, spending their money, without sailing, only for the slight feeling of being at sea, but in a port with allways the same view out of the window.
The restauration of the former liner and then cruise vessel ROTTERDAM into the attration she is now, did cost more as building a new liner of similar appearance ... And the amount broke the neck of involved companies on the way.
WestCord Hotel SS ROTTERDAM - courtsey HOTEL SS ROTTERDAM
Rebuilding the empty shell of UNITED STATES into the intended attraction in best New York will need a ground breaking concept, and by the way no intaes in the construction itself, as a cut into the bow, covered with glass, or added superstructure.I will not write about the hoped "white knight" CRYSTAL CRUISES and the supervision of a potential career as nodern day cruise vessel, which never was intended to fly the Chinese flag, what ultra white supremacist cried out.
The once so modern aluminium superstructure is no longer a stable one, it is after 66 years more of a jello. The minimum what such a concept for UNITED STATES need is to become THE meeting point of New York, a major tourist attraction with museums, - as intended and incorporated hotels, dining venues, bars, theatres and cinemas, libraries, office facilities, perhaps even with flats for rent.
And because it is paned for New York, the stationary UNITED STATES has to be reinvented from time to time - New York is fast and dynamic!
But a ship is financially comparable with a barrel with no bottom - an open hole. A friend of mine joke once: "The densest on a ship, is the toilet ..." He is true for that blunt statement, but it is the more for ship that never sails on the seas. Such a vessel has to attract people, spending their money, without sailing, only for the slight feeling of being at sea, but in a port with allways the same view out of the window.
Given the above, it’s clear that these grand
old ships have incredible appeal just as there’s no denying that their
futures are marked by ocean-liner-sized question marks. For Clive
Palmer, it was about recapturing the essence of one iconic vessel; for
Susan Gibbs, it’s about ensuring that the essence of another isn’t lost
forever.
For his part, Peter Knego has his own wish:
“For people who appreciate classic skyscrapers and old movie theaters,
scrapping the United States would be like demolishing the Empire State
Building,” he told NBC News. “If only (Palmer) would invest in the ship
instead of recreating one that never completed its maiden voyage ...”
I would rather argument, instead investing in this overrated idea of the ship, it might be better investing the money in a ship that is so much more the resemblence of the ideal ocean liner, the one called the perfect ship - NORMANDIE. What le NORMANDIE did cost in the 1930s to construct and fitt out, would be same today - € 800 to 900 million. Taking the SOLAS regulations it would be needed only few changes in the interior of the grand salons and NORMANDIE´s interiors could revive. NORMANDIE would be again the peak of chic. But NORMANDIE can´t be a mass market vessel for 2,000 and more passengers. NORMANDIE was intended for the First Class clientele, and that the new must be too, otherwise it would be breaking the heritage ... A modern NORMANDIE should be a floating Monaco, not Las Vegas! no amusement park, and therefore for few passengers only - max the half of NORMANDIE´s original First Class capacity: 450 to 460 passengers in all the modern luxuries, with min. the equal amount of service crew! 450 to 460, plus technical and nautical crew and artists.
NORMANDIE steaming across the pond - courtsey colouring by Daryl LeBlanc
The exterior can´t be a 100% copy of the original NORMANDIE, it must be altered to meet modern needs and standards.
But after this excursion can there be a liner revival. A comeback of long distance voyages on a liner between, let´s say Europe and North or South America? Or to Australia? Asia?
It would be hard to achieve! Not for the masses, which are trained to love the nowadays cruise offers of themepark amusements. Therefore it would cost more than fortunes for marketing than you may expect.
The mass market needs and NORMANDIE are two different planets! They will be by no means compatible. The hospitality and food&beverage concept must be European.
There is a clientele which would prefer to sail across the seas instead of entering a narrow tube that is pushing you via the skies to a destination, where you eventually need some days to be mentally in the travel destination ... Then there are those who have flight agnst. Also those who would even today prefer traveling in style on a ship, even if it costs 3 or 4 days sailing. Such voyages would have to be sold as extended weekends for the trip. Hard in a nation where there is existing vacancy only for 10 days max, and taking these days off, is considered as lazyness ...
The last World Wealth Report counted more than 25 million super rich in the world - HNWI´s (High Net Worth Individuals). This clientele is comparable to those we had seen pre WWI paying US$ 125,000 in todays money for a First Class suite onboard TITANIC. The number in those days was slightly lesser than today. And rich, super rich we will have even in a financial crisis, more so today as we have seen since 2008. This clientele is not willing to pay money for chi-chi outfittings, such as faked gold, bling bling nonsense and such. But for the real! And this clientele want to be among like minded people.
This new NORMANDIE can´t sail endlessly between New York and European ports, but has to do cruises too. Therefore such a new NORMANDIE must be outfitted similar to a custom built privat super yacht, with all those beloved toys a yacht has to offer, including a submarine! That new NORMANDIE has be then at certain dates at certain paces - LA for the Oscars, Cannes and Venezia for the Film Fest´s and the Bienale, the Royale in Cannes, St.Tropez for the Voile de St.Tropez, Antigua Classic Race, Admirals Cup and such.
And for the crossing of the pond, I mentioned an extended weekend - 4 days min. for the crossing better 3 days. Thus meaning a powerfull engine, and capturing the Blue Riband! BUT enviromental friendly gas turbines for the max power and speed, provided by electric generators, with a most hydrodynamic hull combined with the last hybrid technology available.
A comeback for liners? As it has been - not as a regular transport in the meaning of a ferry between continents. But as a seasonal transport and a changed philiosophie for the voyage and change in marketing. Further no faked identity given a ship, which it can´t fullfill. And such a liner can´t be mass compatible.
But if it will be neccessary out of clima and enviromental reasons, then there is a mass compatible chance for liners, but we don´t have a clima catastrophy, as the clean coal guy says ...
I would rather argument, instead investing in this overrated idea of the ship, it might be better investing the money in a ship that is so much more the resemblence of the ideal ocean liner, the one called the perfect ship - NORMANDIE. What le NORMANDIE did cost in the 1930s to construct and fitt out, would be same today - € 800 to 900 million. Taking the SOLAS regulations it would be needed only few changes in the interior of the grand salons and NORMANDIE´s interiors could revive. NORMANDIE would be again the peak of chic. But NORMANDIE can´t be a mass market vessel for 2,000 and more passengers. NORMANDIE was intended for the First Class clientele, and that the new must be too, otherwise it would be breaking the heritage ... A modern NORMANDIE should be a floating Monaco, not Las Vegas! no amusement park, and therefore for few passengers only - max the half of NORMANDIE´s original First Class capacity: 450 to 460 passengers in all the modern luxuries, with min. the equal amount of service crew! 450 to 460, plus technical and nautical crew and artists.
But after this excursion can there be a liner revival. A comeback of long distance voyages on a liner between, let´s say Europe and North or South America? Or to Australia? Asia?
It would be hard to achieve! Not for the masses, which are trained to love the nowadays cruise offers of themepark amusements. Therefore it would cost more than fortunes for marketing than you may expect.
The mass market needs and NORMANDIE are two different planets! They will be by no means compatible. The hospitality and food&beverage concept must be European.
There is a clientele which would prefer to sail across the seas instead of entering a narrow tube that is pushing you via the skies to a destination, where you eventually need some days to be mentally in the travel destination ... Then there are those who have flight agnst. Also those who would even today prefer traveling in style on a ship, even if it costs 3 or 4 days sailing. Such voyages would have to be sold as extended weekends for the trip. Hard in a nation where there is existing vacancy only for 10 days max, and taking these days off, is considered as lazyness ...
The last World Wealth Report counted more than 25 million super rich in the world - HNWI´s (High Net Worth Individuals). This clientele is comparable to those we had seen pre WWI paying US$ 125,000 in todays money for a First Class suite onboard TITANIC. The number in those days was slightly lesser than today. And rich, super rich we will have even in a financial crisis, more so today as we have seen since 2008. This clientele is not willing to pay money for chi-chi outfittings, such as faked gold, bling bling nonsense and such. But for the real! And this clientele want to be among like minded people.
This new NORMANDIE can´t sail endlessly between New York and European ports, but has to do cruises too. Therefore such a new NORMANDIE must be outfitted similar to a custom built privat super yacht, with all those beloved toys a yacht has to offer, including a submarine! That new NORMANDIE has be then at certain dates at certain paces - LA for the Oscars, Cannes and Venezia for the Film Fest´s and the Bienale, the Royale in Cannes, St.Tropez for the Voile de St.Tropez, Antigua Classic Race, Admirals Cup and such.
And for the crossing of the pond, I mentioned an extended weekend - 4 days min. for the crossing better 3 days. Thus meaning a powerfull engine, and capturing the Blue Riband! BUT enviromental friendly gas turbines for the max power and speed, provided by electric generators, with a most hydrodynamic hull combined with the last hybrid technology available.
Le NOUVEAU FRANCE of Didier Spade, to me the only appealing is the yachtlike stern, which is not suitable for the Atlantic
The designer Didier Spade, who designed Le Nouveau FRANCE made a shocking and provoking design approach. For hull stability reasons that vessel would need more investment than estimated, as the structural integrity of the hull is endangered in the middle because of the two towering structures as superstructure. His father was involved in the design of FRANCE ... seeing the elaborate of Didier Spade, I get the feeling - he must hate his father.A comeback for liners? As it has been - not as a regular transport in the meaning of a ferry between continents. But as a seasonal transport and a changed philiosophie for the voyage and change in marketing. Further no faked identity given a ship, which it can´t fullfill. And such a liner can´t be mass compatible.
But if it will be neccessary out of clima and enviromental reasons, then there is a mass compatible chance for liners, but we don´t have a clima catastrophy, as the clean coal guy says ...
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